Rob, Northeast Ohio seems really under represented here. Tommy Grogan was a standout at your last showcase, played AAU this year on strong team two grade levels up and still doesn't get a mention. Why?And then, Murphy AC goes down to Cinci and wins the state championship at this grade level, and only two of their players get mentioned? Teams MAC beat have several players. Strange...
Looking at this list, you only picked kids that played on either Cincy Elite, Next Level, AC Murphy, or Ohio Hoopsters. Like the previous post, you had several kids that played up this year. Seem to me they got penalized. Also, you have several kids you gave honorable mention to that should have been on those teams.
I appreciate the debate! My response:-From my count, at least 13 kids (almost half) of the kids listed in the 3 teams and HM are from northern, north east Ohio. Not sure that could be considered "under represented." If NE Ohio is under represented, I what can be said for other ares of the state?Personally, I like the concept of a kid "playing Up." In fact, my younger son did the same thing for years. The problem is, those kids tend to get lost may times, as they are not seen competing against their peers. It's not just how well you play; it's how well you played against other kids in your class. A kid may benefit from playing against bigger and older kids in terms of development, but they sacrifice exposure sometimes. I Been there, done that. -I like Murphy AC, but in the games I watched this summer, the 2 kids listed stood out to me the most. I know they have a couple of other quality players on that team (i.e., Matt Davet), but so do a lot of teams and I can't list them all.-In most cases, the better players play for the better teams; the better teams tend to perform better, play longer in tournaments, player in bigger, more competitive tournaments, and the kids get more exposure. It just stands to reason you will find more kids on a list like this.-A problem with lists of this type, if you tell me your kid should be on the list, then tell me which kid I have to take off the list? With 1 kid per position, there is no room for 2 PGs on 1 team. In theory, the 2nd best player in the class would not make the first team if the top 2 players are both PGs. It's just the way things are.I will always admit that kids will get missed on any type of list. I do my best to rely on what I see and what I hear from other people who know the players in any given class. I seek input from as many people I can find who can provide me with credible, unbiased feedback, which is not always easy to find as you might suspect. Again, I don't mind the debate, and I'm not afraid to explain the process. Finally, the list does not represent "rankings' per se, they represent production for one summer. Keep the comments coming!
Rob, will you be making a list for the class of 2018?
wow this is really going to cause some discussion. I have seen most of the top guys on this list. Let give propts where they are due. First three teams pretty acurate. Smith Kid from Next Level diffenly first team he is one of the few bigs that has a all around game. Other Smith kid from Hoopster should be on one of these teams not honorable mention. Profitt kid from Next level you missed out this kid to.
good list i would add that John williams and Marion Jackson and Tommy schmock would eat the rest of this class up at the 1 or 2 spots. upcomming showcase should be fun.
Matt Davet should easily be on this< hes a great kid and great handling the pressure. Some say he can be compared to one of the best in the state.
Tommy Schmock should be on first team, ive seen him and keegan both. Tommy is better at controlling the floor and ball handling and driving. Though keegan is a better shooter.
I disagree I have also seen them both and Keegan is better at driving and ball handling but Tommy can get the ball to his teammates when needed and has a good shot but overall I think Keegan is better
Cogratulations to all of the Ohio kids who attended the jr all american camp in suwanne georgia. All of the kids from Ohio competed well. Congrats to keegan saben for ranking 23 at the camp And to jaylen Harris for ranking number 2 and making the all star game. Our ohio kids represented us quite well!
I have seen most of these kids through out the year. Rob has it pretty much correct. Only way Smith would make the 1st team is if you moved Harris to the three spot and put hill at the 4 spot. I do think he has the most potential of any 5 out there right now. I have to agree with the above mentioned that Tommy Grogan should have been on the list somewhere. In my opinion he is the second best point guard in the state. Right now Seban's bball IQ is higher and he does whatever it is his team needs him to do to win. With this being said I think Harris is easily the best kid in the class.
Murphy AC has about 3 very good players that seem to be overlooked and not given the credit deserved because they are shadowed by Harris and Schmock.
This list makes the Buckeye Prep showcase all that much more important. The debate about best point guard and best big could be resolved there. But I do think there will always be a debate, which is very healthy for everyone involved. What is the saying " beauty is in the eye of the beholder "
Their is a big debate at the point guard position in this class . Keegan Seban and Tommy Schmock are both great point guards . Honestly, Keegan has the better over all game . * One name not on here that definable deserves a spot is Tommy Grogan . He has tremendous speed and athleticism that allows him to score at will . But one thing Tommy does better then most point guards in his class is Defense , without a doubt .
To respond to the previous post. Seban is a great player that may become a 2 down the road. Schmock is a pure 1 who is the best PG in the class. Tommy Gragan is real good. Grogan needs to come back down and play with his class to be in the best PG talks. It would be no different for Seban or Schmock if they were playing up.
Why seben at a 2 guard??? He is very tall alreaDY AND SHOUD GET TO 6'4 OR 6'5 PERFECT FOR A POINT IN COLLEGE. He is extremely athletic, runs the floor very well and in transition he is difficult to beat. his shot has improved drastically since last year AND HE CAN PASS WITH THE BEST OF THEM. I saw him play at All american camp and his defense was outstanding. I am from illinois and haven't seen many that have his game. with that being said he, my son's team played him and he had an off game but if you know bball and watch for certain things he doesn't turn the ball over, plays great defense and gets his teammates involved. I saw him throw three absolutely beautiful no look passes that went right thru kids hands. if they would have caught them it was a catch and layup. He is very unselfish and a very humble kid to boot. We would take him in illinois if u guys don't want him
CJ Fleming? Serious?
CJ Flemming is a very good player
First off, these lists are always fun and Rob provides a great service to all of us doing his best cobbling them together. That said, let’s remember these lists are just that….fun. Someone above said: “Grogan needs to come back down and play with his class to be in the best PG talks.” Bad advice. If it is helping his game to play up, TG needs to keep playing up! Please kids out there who may be reading this, do not worry about your 8th grade ranking. Do not let it affect where you play, or your style of play or where you do skill work. Very shortsited! Sure Murphy AC would dominate if Grogan played with them this year, but that’s not what it is all about. Matt Davet, you are a top player on one of the top two teams in the state. Enough said, get to work! Murphy AC shooter, you can play as well, don't worry about ratings.
I could not agree more with the above post! Stay in the gym, work on your game (and attitude), and you will go as far as your God-given talent will take you! What I put out is only a snapshot at the moment, and should not be considered a prediction of future success. At this age, it's more about development than anything else. Let's try and enjoy the debate and use what you read on this website as motivation, information and inspiration!!!
Naz Bohannon , Tommy Grogan , and Matt Davet should all be on this list for sure . All 3 have completely different type of styles and positions but the thing they have in common is that they can all play with the best of them !
2 of the best 3 players in the class are point guards. Harris,Seban,Schmock.
Jalen Garret from Northmont is the best point guard in the state. He has been tremendously over looked. he played for Dayton Nets this year and absolutely dominated. Shooting: awesome Ballhandling: awesome Court awareness: awesome Quickness: awesome.
Schmock is the real deal. ( even if i hate to admit it)He is one who could truly play up. Alot of those players who play up. SHOULD NOT!!!!! Just because you find a below avg team to play up on does not make you a good player.
I do agree that players down south get more love. But it is up to the nothern area teams Canton, Clev , Lorain , Elyria , ETC... to take that love
The South is deeper. Columbus is deep. The North is top heavy. Harris,Hill,Schmock, top 3 in 2017.
But it seems like it is like that with 2016 too. ( No love )
Grogan is very athletic and can score in multiple ways. Easily one of the best all around players in the state. Difference between him and the others is he brings it on defense.
couldnt agree more !
Would love to see what a team consisting of Seban, Grogan, Pugh, Hill and Harris could do on the national level. Wouldn't mind seeing CJ Fleming coming off the bench as well!
I would also love to see that they could go some places!
Cant forget to put Schmock in that mix!
Who does CJ Fleming play for in the summer?
Schmosk doesn't belong with the other two. Not even close. both way more athletic, and don't have harris to help them out.
Pugh and Shmock should both be first team. Shmock is so much better then Seban and Pugh would light Davis up!
I agree with the previous post. And also, Pugh is a 6'4" WF.
Grogan no where near those players!!! Not even close!!! The reason Pugh, Harris, Tommy etc... they make other players better. If you play with tommy you get open shots all game. Grogan can't create like those players. Also can't go left. I think he is a good player. Just not top in state.
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Totally disagree, with Grogans driving ability he dishes out to the corner all game for open 3's. He can create just as well as any other player on that list and it shows because he is more of a pass first player with a scoring mentality .
I disagree with L'Christian Smith on third team, he's better than that. Along with Danny Davis and Keegan and a few others their team dominated the state in AAU this year. They only lost 4 games and just one to an Ohio team, which they avenged. I had a chance to see Smith paly out of state several times this summer against high level players from their respective states. He dominated. Smith has a unique skill set not afforded to the other big guys on this list and I believe this sets him apart from the rest. Not to mention that he outplayed the guys on this list that he matched up against. Next Level and MAC didn't play this year so I don't discount Harris at all. But I've seen enough of both guys to form the opinion that Smith is the better player.Also, I have to comment on the "Jalen Garrett" post. I ABSOLUTELY love that kid!!! He's got the heart of a Lion, the mind of a genius and the mouth of a cannon. LOL! With that said, he IS NOT the best PG in the state. Not even close. Great shooter and smart, but not the best in the state. Although, I did see a game he played with the Nets against AOP. He burried like 7 treys on them...6 in the first half! AOP's bench was yappin' at him which is the wrong thing to do. After each shot he told them where the next one was coming from. True story. Funniest stuff I've seen.
Good post. Who is the best PG in the state ?
Maybe Rob could give his opinion as well ?
I'm partial to Keegan as the best 2017 PG in the state. Schmock is close, but from what I've seen Keegan is a little more versatile in terms of scoring, rebounding and defense. Believe me when I say that you couldn't go wrong with either one. This is just my opinion. Also, I think Ryan Profitt from Next Level should be on the list too. I saw him play L'Christian in a conference tournament game last school season. Profitt dominated. Only game I've seen L'Christian not get the better of his opponent. Profitt can do some of the things Smith can, he's just not quite as athletic. He hit's threes, boards, passes, and defends his position. Very under the radar player right now.
I know who the best big is: Logan Hill
It will be very interesting to see where the kids on this list wind up next year, on what teams ?
I agree with the previous post about the Smith Kid from Next Level. I got to see him several times this year against top level talent. He dominated every big except Harris who he didn't go up against. I saw the Harris kid several times this year and still think the Smith kid was better. He was one of the few who ran the floor like a gazell and could knock down the three as well as post you up. Next Level team is the top team in the state Smith,Saben, Davis and Profitt should all have been on the first three team. With the Harris kid on honorable mention.
Harris and Smith are not even the same position!!!!!!!!!!!
The three top pg's in the state are schmock grogan and seban . It's not even close after that
Here is a realistic top 3 PG list1. Seban2. Tie John Williams / Marreon Jackson3. Tommy SchmockIn that order
williams and jackson good but not in the debate.sebangroganschmockin this order
There goes that hype machine again, Grogan's not even top 5 in NEO. Head up, Williams had his way with Grogan (Buckeye Prep Tourney). As Grogan and whole team could only muster up 17pts in a blow out. I believe Williams single handling outscored Grogan & whole team. Jackson started and was a key asset to DB Jackson a top 5 (2016) team. No disrespect to the kid, but all the showcases & camps do not make an elite level player. Williams, Jackson, & few others have done consistently all season long. Please stop, if your not top 5 in Northeast Ohio. Then, your certainly not top 3 in Ohio
I coached against Grogan during his middle school year with Stow and he did not impress from what I heard from the last showcase. He wasn't even the best player ( I think the kid played with MAC and Schmock) or the point guard so I was surprised when I heard A debate for him to be top in the state? But John Williams is a real player. Not as good now as Seban or Schmock but certainly 3rd in state. Grogan can play some D though . That's not even debatable.
Have not heard from Rob in a while. Any thoughts on all the activity?
Please stop with Tommy Grogan hype machine!!! Seen him play, he's a "desecent" player. Hands down, John Williams is best PG in Akron (Stow) area. Parents or whoever please stop, let the young man keep working on his game. These comments are becoming comical
I second the call on John Williams . Now that is a kid umder the radar a little bit. he has had some great battles this year with Schmock and Murphy AC. Always does well, respects the game a ton.
John Williams...who did he play for this summer? DB Hoops?
DB Hoops Martin.
As long as the debate stays positive, I enjoy the "activity." I look forward to watching the above mentioned players more closely so we can start to really determine who is who. Because so many of the players mentioned above will be participating in the upcoming elite showcase, we will all get a chance to see more of them in a very competitive environment! I would suggest the players bring their “A game,” as the competition may weed out some of the talk! I’m pumped!! On another note, I plan to publish my 2018 list this weekend. Any feedback on who the top 7th graders are and who should make the cut?? I wonder if the 2018 list will generate the number of comments as the 2017 has?
People, all of this back & forth on who's better? It's only (upcoming) 8th grade basketball!!! Alot of factors have to come into play (puberty, growth spurts, progression, work ethic, grades, dedication). This can be a healthy debate, but let's not put all this hype on these young men. It's 2012, let's wait until ,at least, 2015 (soph yr) to get a real gauge of who's who in the 2017 class. The cream always rises to top.
My 2018 first team from central Ohio would be...Isaiah Speelman Dane GoodwinSeth GoodsonBraden NorrisTy Wiley
Only 3 seventh grade ohio teams place at nationals. The Ohio hoopsters in D1, the Cincinnati Bulldogs and Dayton Pilots in D2. And that says something.
What does that say exactly?
It says talent is getting overlooked. Especially on the Cincinnati Bulldogs. Placing at nationals is no easy task.
This is Jonathan (John)Williams and Joshua Williams Barberton OH Father Coach Jerry Williams I'm greatful for All comments regarding my sons. They will both be at the showcase come one come all and see for your self. My sons or any one else boys if they don't keep working on their skill they will not get better so time will tell its not height, size, or color. It is hard work and that and only that will pay off.
Good not agree more. One of the best posts of all.
To me schmock john and keegan Are top 3, ive played all and think johns the best scorer.